Podyji / Thayatal

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Podyji / Thayatal

Postby Tomas Klacek » Tue Oct 04, 2016 9:17 pm

Hi,
Me and my girlfriend spend a weekend in NP Podyji/ NP Thayatal (Czech/Austrian border), here are couple of photos...
Vineyard dry stone walls looked great, so we take a quick look for some herps.
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It did not take too long to discover first smooth snake.
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And another one was basking in the grass.
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Hundreds of European green lizards, mostly juveniles
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A few females and suprisingly no male at all.
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And finally young aeskulapian snake on the way back to hotel.
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View from Austria.
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Vineyards everywhere.
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Cheers,
T.
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Re: Poddyji / Thayatal

Postby Jeroen Speybroeck » Tue Oct 04, 2016 9:39 pm

Loved your pics once more, T.!
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Re: Podyji / Thayatal

Postby Ruggero M. » Wed Oct 05, 2016 2:55 pm

Reddish Coronella austriaca are always beautiful!
In a similar vineyard habitat here in the south of Pavia you won't find, nowadays, absolutely anything: maybe a couple of Podarcis muralis.
Where is hidden the difference?
Picture number 7 gives us a hint... :lol:
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Re: Podyji / Thayatal

Postby Ilian Velikov » Wed Oct 05, 2016 3:44 pm

Tomas Klacek wrote:A few females and suprisingly no male at all.


I observed the same thing in Bulgaria at the end of July and the beginning of August. Many L.viridis but only females. I found it very curious and I'm still wondering why could this be? Has anybody ever read something regarding this?

Things that crossed my mind are "the males disperse after breeding season", "decreasing predation by big males around the time the juveniles come out (although I guess females would also prey on smaller lizards)"...but this doesn't explain much and are just speculations.

Does anybody know of any publications on viridis population structure, home range, male territories? I did a quick search online but didn't get anything.
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Re: Podyji / Thayatal

Postby Tomas Klacek » Thu Oct 06, 2016 7:56 am

Thanks for the comments.

I do not know this particular habitat, I was there for a first time. But on viridis habitats around Prague, which I know (I guess very well), male occurence depends on a season. In spring they can be found together with females in the upper parts of the south oriented rocky slopes. Later on the season, big males are mostly in the grass around the tourist path bellow the slopes while females and juveniles stays up. No idea why...
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Re: Podyji / Thayatal

Postby Ilian Velikov » Thu Oct 06, 2016 2:00 pm

Tomas Klacek wrote:Thanks for the comments.

I do not know this particular habitat, I was there for a first time. But on viridis habitats around Prague, which I know (I guess very well), male occurence depends on a season. In spring they can be found together with females in the upper parts of the south oriented rocky slopes. Later on the season, big males are mostly in the grass around the tourist path bellow the slopes while females and juveniles stays up. No idea why...


Thanks for this observation Tomas. This is interesting. It reminds me of behavior that is typically associated with mammals. It is known that male viridis hold and defend territories but I don't know if in the breeding season females go into the males territories or the other way around. From your observation it looks like males go where the females are. Maybe males are more inclined to prey on juveniles than the females, so instinctively they disperse around the time when juveniles emerge...?

Does anybody have any theories/thoughts on this? Come on, lizard people.
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Re: Podyji / Thayatal

Postby Will Atkins » Thu Oct 06, 2016 5:08 pm

could it perhaps be that males have no need to make themselves conspicuous at this time of year, but females are able to produce a second clutch of eggs and so have to bask more openly ? this happens in the UK with sand lizards, males being more obvious in spring (of course) and then quite cryptic later in the season. In warm summers even in the UK female sand lizards can double clutch, making them more evident not only in early summer but also later on.
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Re: Podyji / Thayatal

Postby Ilian Velikov » Fri Oct 07, 2016 9:46 am

Will Atkins wrote:could it perhaps be that males have no need to make themselves conspicuous at this time of year, but females are able to produce a second clutch of eggs and so have to bask more openly ? this happens in the UK with sand lizards, males being more obvious in spring (of course) and then quite cryptic later in the season. In warm summers even in the UK female sand lizards can double clutch, making them more evident not only in early summer but also later on.


Will, you have a point. However, my observations and those of Tomas in this thread were made between August and October (not early summer)...If the females lay eggs at this time would they have time to develop! December/January can be very cold at least in Bulgaria. Also, I wonder if the males don't need to be so conspicuous can't they be inconspicuous within the same place? Why they have to move to another area (as in Tomas' case from Prague)?
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Re: Podyji / Thayatal

Postby Will Atkins » Fri Oct 07, 2016 2:31 pm

Hi Ilian

my knowledge of the climate in this area is pretty non-existent, but could they be developing a second (or even a third) clutch in August? I think wall lizards do this (even some UK populations of Podarcis have been recorded triple-clutching). Also could it be that females, having laid their eggs, are having to regain condition by feeding later / more conspicuously than their male counterparts? As for the perceived migration of male green lizards, this is new to me and sounds like it certainly deserves more study.
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Re: Podyji / Thayatal

Postby Ilian Velikov » Fri Oct 07, 2016 2:52 pm

Will Atkins wrote:Also could it be that females, having laid their eggs, are having to regain condition by feeding later / more conspicuously than their male counterparts? As for the perceived migration of male green lizards, this is new to me and sounds like it certainly deserves more study.


It's very possible, but who knows? This is all very interesting and indeed worth studying. When I was researching on the subject I found very little about green lizard's behavior or social structure. It seems that they've mostly been used like lab rats (I guess because of their abundance and availability) as most of the scientific papers on them are to do with their morphology, anatomy, genetics and basically anything that involves dissecting them. I think there are a lot of interesting things to be discovered about them.
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