Krk island; May 2015

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Re: Krk island; May 2015

Postby Berislav Horvatic » Tue May 19, 2015 2:30 pm

Well, my local expert (Ljiljana Borovečki-Voska) has passed her expert "verdict":
Ophrys apifera and O. bertolonii are OK, but your "O. holoserica" is actually
Ophrys untchjii (M. Schulze) P. Delforge.
http://hirc.botanic.hr/fcd/DetaljiFrame ... rste=27637
Believe me, what's Ljiljana Tomović regarding vipers, that's this another Ljiljana
when it comes to orchids. I'm very happy to have both of these Lilies "at hand"...
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Re: Krk island; May 2015

Postby Berislav Horvatic » Tue May 19, 2015 7:42 pm

Bobby Bok wrote:Aaargghh, how easy is it for most people to find quatuorlineata! :lol: After so many trips to the Balkans I still have to see an adult...

My funniest and easiest find of an E. 4lineata went like this: I was in the field with a biology student, on the island of Krk,
and our primary aim was to catch enough pregnant females of A. nigropunctatus for someone's diploma work. It got too hot,
so we stopped, and had a short consultation whether to search some more or just call it a day and go back. While we were
talking, I lowered my eyes and saw a middle-sized adult E. 4lineata nicely stretched at my feet, not moving, doing nothing
at all... (We might have stepped on it, but fortunately we didn't...) So I just stooped in the middle of our conversation and
gently picked it up, with my bare hand.
BTW, an E. 4lineata (160 cm TBL) was actually the first snake I caught in my life, by myself alone, after learning from Mario...
But that's rather a story for "Fieldherpers' cafe" and winter time...
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Re: Krk island; May 2015

Postby Bobby Bok » Tue May 19, 2015 8:16 pm

Mario Schweiger wrote:Even with my rheumatism I stumble on them ;) , if not my friends/colleagues are much faster on the way.

Berislav Horvatic wrote:While we were talking, I lowered my eyes and saw a middle-sized adult E. 4lineata nicely stretched at my feet, not moving, doing nothing
at all... (We might have stepped on it, but fortunately we didn't...) So I just stooped in the middle of our conversation and gently picked it up, with my bare hand.
BTW, an E. 4lineata (160 cm TBL) was actually the first snake I caught in my life, by myself alone, after learning from Mario...
But that's rather a story for "Fieldherpers' cafe" and winter time...


Don't make it any worse than it already is! :lol:
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Re: Krk island; May 2015

Postby Berislav Horvatic » Tue May 19, 2015 9:01 pm

Bobby Bok wrote:Don't make it any worse than it already is! :lol:

OK, but you have also done feats that happened just to you, and noone else... Remember, a few years ago Jeroen
and you were given precise instructions regarding our best (that is, the most easily accessible) V. ursinii site, you
arrived there too late in the afternoon, it was just before sunset, and you decided to just take a very short walk, with
no real chances of finding anything at all, just to see how the site looks like... After a few hundred meters you ended
up with an ursinii in your hand, at sunset... (Beautiful pictures of a happy man B. B. taken by Jeroen...) Well, none
of us (in Croatia) has ever found an ursinii at a time like that, having walked some mere 300 meters in semi-darkness,
expecting nothing at all... Probably noone else has, anywhere.
Moreover, your find was the first one at such a low altitude (at cca. 1100 m a.s.l.) on this mountain, and it actually
prompted us to (finally!) start searching that low, and even lower... And yes, they do go as low as 950 m a.s.l.
And all that owing just to Jeroen & you having come there hopelessly too late and your hellish personal luck.
(In a scienfic paper, this would be an official acknowledgment, at least... Here it's just a reminder that you're not
saddled with bad luck...)
As another attempt of consolation, could you (or anyone) believe that I've never found a Zamenis situla, in nature,
and alive? (Only DOR...) And I've never caught a Platyceps najadum, and have seen only one... And I happen to live
in the Balkans... (Well, actually & formally (scientifically), in Central Europe, some 40 km to the north of the "official"
northern boundary of the Balkan peninsula, as defined by geographers & al., but that's it... no escape, no excuse...)
Seems we all have our (individual/personal) crosses to bear, my friend...
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Re: Krk island; May 2015

Postby Bobby Bok » Wed May 20, 2015 7:53 am

Thanks for cheering me up Bero :D But you are right, a matter of luck is always involved and that afternoon we were very lucky indeed. Without really expecting to find anything on that slope so near sunset we found that beautiful little ursinii. And at that moment itself we were not really aware yet of how special our find was, we were just in awe of the little viper. Glad to have contributed in an indirect way to other novel discoveries as well!
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Re: Krk island; May 2015

Postby Mario Schweiger » Wed May 20, 2015 8:25 am

Berislav Horvatic wrote:but your "O. holoserica" is actually
Ophrys untchjii (M. Schulze) P. Delforge.
http://hirc.botanic.hr/fcd/DetaljiFrame ... rste=27637


Thanks!
Although I found now, untchjii is (=maybe) a synonym of fuciflora.
Like in herps, splitters are welcome ;)
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Re: Krk island; May 2015

Postby Berislav Horvatic » Wed May 20, 2015 12:20 pm

Although I found now, untchjii is (=maybe) a synonym of fuciflora.

But not of holoserica... (Of course, I mean what's nowadays (sic!) accepted (sic!) as O. holoserica...)
So, please don't attempt the misleading, slippery path holoserica --> fuciflora --> untchjii (and then
somewhat back...), as it's a most perilous path, leading the unwary straight to the (taxonomic) hell...
Rather than that, believe in the guidance of our Orchidlily angel...
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Re: Krk island; May 2015

Postby Berislav Horvatic » Thu May 21, 2015 7:16 pm

Berislav Horvatic wrote:Regarding N. tessellata, I don't quite understand (or rather, accept) your ironical "As expected,
they found none :lol: )." After all, the guy did find it there two (or has it been already three?!)
years ago, so, unless he's just a pathological lier (which I don't believe),... it's not "of course not",
why should it be?

Mario, you've never answered this particular question of mine, which I don't find trivial at all...
Was it on purpose, or what? So, once again, why "As expected, they found none."?
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Re: Krk island; May 2015

Postby Mario Schweiger » Fri May 22, 2015 7:56 am

Berislav Horvatic wrote:
Berislav Horvatic wrote:Regarding N. tessellata, I don't quite understand (or rather, accept) your ironical "As expected,
they found none :lol: )." After all, the guy did find it there two (or has it been already three?!)
years ago, so, unless he's just a pathological lier (which I don't believe),... it's not "of course not",
why should it be?

Mario, you've never answered this particular question of mine, which I don't find trivial at all...
Was it on purpose, or what? So, once again, why "As expected, they found none."?


I'm sure, Natrix tessellata doesnt have a native distribution on the island.
All spotted specimens (beside this one there is only one documented finding [M. Franzen]) are likely transported to Krk (conscious or by chance).
Therefore, the chance to find one of these occasional finds years later again is like zero.
You see, I dont like to write - it was a fake - here, although the specimen remembered me very well to those occuring around lake Vrana in N-Dalmatia ;)

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Re: Krk island; May 2015

Postby Jeroen Speybroeck » Fri May 22, 2015 8:04 am

Also, between a true find and a lie, there's also the option of a mistake, no?
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