Croatia, April 2016

[Ilian Velikov]

Ilian, the white spots are also visible in subadult viridiflavus for sure (see p. 362 in our book ).

Where do you think I get my information from Yes, that makes sense now. However, it adds even more to the confusion...Where do you draw the line between "juvenile" and "subadult" ? Is there any size parameters? I'm asking because if there are, one might or might not take into account that feature depending on the size of the animal they've observed.

[Jeroen Speybroeck]

It's hard for sure. I actually used 'subadult' here as referring to anything that's not adult (= sub + juv)...

[Ilian Velikov]

It's hard for sure. I actually used 'subadult' here as referring to anything that's not adult (= sub + juv)...

So do you mean that "juvenile" viridiflavus also have the white spots?

[Jeroen Speybroeck]

It's hard for sure. I actually used 'subadult' here as referring to anything that's not adult (= sub + juv)...

So do you mean that "juvenile" viridiflavus also have the white spots?

That IS what I meant, but I'm starting to doubt it now (should check). In any case, it's much more obvious in gemo.

[Mario Schweiger]

dont doubt, Jeroen!

Here is one from Tuscany:

labeled it is on the main site. 2nd row, left
http://www.focusnatura.at/serpentes-schlangen-snakes/

[Jeroen Speybroeck]

Hardly a lot to go on, but am I imagining that in viridiflavus it's more blue and in gemo (apart from being more ample) more white?

Next time, count ventral and tail scales, everyone!

It's actually an intriguing area for this enigma alone; I should go there again; it's been 15 years...

[Mario Schweiger]

dont know the key now where it is in, but as far as I remember, there is 70 - 80 % overlap in ventrals and nearly as much in subcaudals

[Jeroen Speybroeck]

dont know the key now where it is in, but as far as I remember, there is 70 - 80 % overlap in ventrals and nearly as much in subcaudals

OK, that's a statement you are going to have to source. At least you did not point that out when reviewing our book

[Berislav Horvatic]

dont know the key now where it is in, but as far as I remember, there is 70 - 80 % overlap
in ventrals and nearly as much in subcaudals

I have the same problem - don't find it, much as I've tried. Lost in some ancient e-mail message...
As far as I can remember, the "overlap" in this particular case is not that much hopeless as Mario
suggests, but it's still not decisive...
BTW, if you allow me to be "pedantic" once again, the "overlap" of, let's say, 90 and 100 is just
something about 10%, depending whether you norm it to 90 or 100. In any case, it's certainly not
anything like 90%, by the definition of the "overlap". Or? Oder?