Newt larvae ID

[Peter Engelen]

I found those larvae (3-5 cm) in the same pond with big larvae (10 cm) and adults from Pleurodeles waltl. This in a pond near a school in Belgium. So no Pleurodeles territorium.I don't think thoose are larvae from Mesotriton alpestris. But a need a second, 3th, 4th, ... opinion before ...

Or is this an other species?

In this pond there also Lissotriton vulgaris and Mesotriton alpestris, but also Lissotriton helveticus (also an introduction).

Greetings,

Peter

[Jeroen Speybroeck]

My guess is Ichthyosaura alpestris.

[Michal Szkudlarek]

Never heard of Pleurodeles waltl inroduction in central Europe. Maybe this pond is someone property to breed this species? Some people keep even axolotls in ponds..

[Sandra Panienka]

My guess would be I. alpestris, too. Do you have pics of the waltl larvae for comparison?

[Peter Engelen]

Never heard of Pleurodeles waltl inroduction in central Europe. Maybe this pond is someone property to breed this species? Some people keep even axolotls in ponds..

Neither do I.

This is a pond owned by a school, for educational purposes.

But it's a little too close to the largest Belgian population Hyla arborea. I am not the person who takes many risks, so ...
On Monday the local fire department will be draining the pond and any suspicious looking newt will be taken away.

Therefore I must be 100% sure of the small larvae, ...

[Peter Engelen]

My guess would be I. alpestris, too. Do you have pics of the waltl larvae for comparison?

I hope you're right and only the big larvae are from waltl. Otherwise there's a big problem. In my own garden pond the M.alpestrislarvae are very black so I will go to another pond today to see how they look overthere.

The larvae on the pictures are around 10 cm.

[Bobby Bok]

Overall appearance hints towards alpestris I'd say. Tailtips in Pleurodeles are pointier I think.
But really weird that those Pleurodeles managed to breed in our climate, it's a species well represented in the animaltrade so I can imagine there could be another population somewhere else then?

[Michal Szkudlarek]

Bobby, breeding in a pond is not a trouble for Pleurodeles waltl. The problem is with hibernation, but in my country people manage to hibernate them... It is said that they won't disperse untill pond dry up.

[Jeroen Speybroeck]

* alpestris larvae can be very dark, but not always

* waltl is surely highly aquatic

[Peter Engelen]

Bobby, breeding in a pond is not a trouble for Pleurodeles waltl. The problem is with hibernation, but in my country people manage to hibernate them... It is said that they won't disperse untill pond dry up.

Ok, I will drain the pond, catch the Pleuro's and fill the pond again to avoid dispersion of any survivors.Now I'm sure the larvae are from alpestris. Today I catched 7 more Pleuro's.

It seems that last year they found also 2 in the same pond. I think somebody just puts everything of his aquarium in this pond.