Hello from Switzerland

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Hello from Switzerland

Postby Felipe Barcon » Wed Aug 13, 2014 6:16 pm

I'm a spanish photographer amateur living in Switzerland. since my childhood I was interested snakes particulary all species of vipers. I take 90% of my pictures in the beautiful montains of Switzerland : Les Alpes. I'm lucky because we have an incredible concentration of vipers and the coloration of those one is infinite.
I principaly use a Nikon d800 with a nikon macro 105mm 2.8. I hope you will enjoy my pictures.

See you soon! years hold 31
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Felipe Barcon
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:08 pm
Hometown: Geneve
country: Switzerland

Re: Hello from Switzerland

Postby Mario Schweiger » Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:55 am

Hello Felipe, welcome here!
There are some nice Vipera aspis aspis pics in your threat Aspis Atra ;)
Mario (Admin)

Please visit also my personal Herp-site vipersgarden.at
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Mario Schweiger
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Location: Obertrum, Salzburg, Austria
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Re: Hello from Switzerland

Postby Jeroen Speybroeck » Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:46 am

Mario Schweiger wrote:There are some nice Vipera aspis aspis pics in your threat Aspis Atra ;)

Depends on your subspecies definition, Mario. The traditional definition states that subspecies are geographical morphs, so there is no need for molecular evidence. Of course, it has been argued that this definition is outdated, but it's not necessarily wrong to maintain atra, regardless of our personal sentiment on the matter.
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Re: Hello from Switzerland

Postby Mario Schweiger » Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:22 am

Jeroen Speybroeck wrote:
Mario Schweiger wrote:There are some nice Vipera aspis aspis pics in your threat Aspis Atra ;)

Depends on your subspecies definition, Mario. The traditional definition states that subspecies are geographical morphs, so there is no need for molecular evidence. Of course, it has been argued that this definition is outdated, but it's not necessarily wrong to maintain atra, regardless of our personal sentiment on the matter.


Sure!
But you have to bear in mind the climatic circumstances "a few thousend" years ago. No viper species has been able to live in the higher altitudes in the Alps. So they came from "lowlands" to the mountains after the last iceage again. Differences in color/pattern and a bit in pholidosis depends on bottle-neck effect.
Another example: The Bolzano-ammodytes. Is it a ssp. or not?
Is it a substrate morph? NO, the light grey color envolved during the time, they expanded their range from - lets say Veneto - to Alto Adige, while staying on light colored limestone. For this habitat type they are adapted best, not for the darkred Porphyr rocks ;)

Mario
Mario (Admin)

Please visit also my personal Herp-site vipersgarden.at
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Mario Schweiger
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Posts: 2230
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Location: Obertrum, Salzburg, Austria
Hometown: Obertrum
country: Austria

Re: Hello from Switzerland

Postby Felipe Barcon » Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:42 am

Thank you for your comments!

The question of whether the aspis atra can still be considered a subspecies is something that divide most herpetologists. I am not an expert in genetics but I have observed many viper lowland and mountain viper. It seems to me that the difference is significant. The coloration are different, but also the habitat and the alimentation. Besides, I know some vipers population in different places in the Alps which feed that amphibians, and these vipers have developed a neurotoxic venom more effcient on their prey. Mario Obviously you're right to say that all this comes from the developments that have followed these vipers to fit their habitats. For me this is sufficient to consider them as atra as they were before. But maybe it's not, i give only my opinion!

Felipe
Felipe Barcon
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:08 pm
Hometown: Geneve
country: Switzerland

Re: Hello from Switzerland

Postby Jeroen Speybroeck » Thu Aug 14, 2014 2:06 pm

I was just pointing out the flawed definition of "subspecies". It is quite exemplary that on Wikipedia the statement "Members of one subspecies differ morphologically or by different coding sequences of DNA from members of other subspecies of the species. Subspecies are defined in relation to species." is followed by "[citation needed]" ;) . Mario's story has of course far more meaningful relevance. Those of you who followed earlier discussions on here might remember that I am not a big fan of subspecies, and that there are even species concepts who reject the use of them all together.
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country: Belgium


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